New Space Wolves
Thu, 10/08/2009 - 01:23
Sorry that you'll read this and not find a list, but just a quick question for those of you familiar with the new Wolves...
I've seen quite a few lists out there revolving around 3 units of long fangs, all with missile launchers(15 in total). Does anybody think that this is a viable list in competitive play? Personally I do not, though there seems to be lot of them on various forums. Somehow I see units of 6 marines dying very quickly, and unless they're against lots of AV10-12 I fail to see them being a strong core to build around... though I haven't got the new codex yet to get a close look.
Mostly curious is all, has anybody actually played against this, or played it against competitve lists?
Thu, 10/08/2009 - 09:28
#2
Personally, I don't see a list revolving around them working too well. They might get 1 turn of fire against a vehicle list, they do nothing to landraiders or lemon russ. Then they will get pie plated off the face of the earth.
1/3 of the time you get to walk on the table turn 1 with Dawn of War...not so fun, even if you have night fight protecting you.
Small templates aren't even all the effective against orks, you are still wounding on 4's, and they will most likely get cover. Even with moderate spacing, you are tagging 3 orks per missile max, which basically gets you 12-15 hits, 6-7 wounds, 3-4 dead orks per unit.
If 3 long fang units account for less than half a unit of boyz a turn...those wolves are in trouble come turn 3. Though they do instant kill nob bikers, but they aren't going to get very many against good players.
As an Eldar player, my Warwalkers cringe, but the rest of my army doesn't really care. Because they'll be gone before they can do much damage.
Later,
Greg
Thu, 10/08/2009 - 10:38
#3
Most of the lists are 4 full units of grey hunters, 1 hq to go with a unit, 3 wolf guard... this is mounted in rhinos. The second half of the army is the long fangs. Seems the idea is rhino rush the grey hunters, static fire the fangs. In the 1850 mark I've seen a few that boast a dreadnought, multi-melta drop pod to fill out the points.
Even if they kill the nob bikers, which I think they will, that usually leaves a whole lot of orcs(which in my experience win the games anyways) to deal with, and those nobs won't die in a single round of shooting either.
As a player who relies heavily on drop pods I don't really care myself. While the longfangs are a good unit, I bet one of my tactical squads rapid firing will just kill them off or mangle them so much they're thier ineffective.
Thu, 10/08/2009 - 22:05
#4
The new long fangs are quite a good unit. And builds that revolve around 3 squads of them will have a great time against most mechanized armies... being able to target 6 targets a turn.
They do not have good staying power and with any dedicated firepower they will fall. However, the strength of the list lies in the cheap GreyHunters... a great troop. I see competitive SW lists relying heavily on units of these, and maybe a big killy unit (like wolfguard) and some support units, and Longfangs make GREAT support units, they are cheap as all hell and they are low profile... but lists that are based around them... Id like to see it played against drop pods, for example.
Now, long fangs with Logan in a SW drop pod list have the potential to be absolutely devastating... move and fire heavy weapons? Yeah... To add survivability to the longfang units there is nothing like an 18 pt wolfguard to take a wound for the team.
Cheers!
Fri, 10/09/2009 - 02:04
#5
I recently just played against a space wolf army at 1850, and tabled it on my 4th turn. Drop pods vs. expensive units of long fangs or wolf guard are a mismatch. Sure, you can target multiple units with your 5 heavy weapons, but my tactical squad popping out will ruin your day, in this case before you even fired a shot. Lots of units can easily kill 6 space marines in a single round of shooting. I think that most mech heavy armies can deal with that amount for firepower, especially if armour 12 or higher. They're really high on the priority list for some fast mech, because no other wolf units can really take down armour at range.
Logan is cool, but a unit of longfangs, with either missiles or multi-meltas, in a drop pod with logan is 450 points..... which will move and fire it's heavy weapons. It's 1/4 of your army at 1850, which better kill 2 land raiders before I kill it in one round of shooting. Points sink. Logan is wounds, 2+/4+. My sternguard killed him in a single round of combi-plasma death. Lysander, Calgar, Abbadon still better for comparible or less points.
PS, does that relentless ability even work out of a drop pod? Logan isn't on the board at the start of the turn to use that ability, when the pod lands.... so it does nothing? Not sure on that one.
Just my thoughts. Everybody seems to be on the space wolf band wagon, but i've yet to see a very solid list from them yet. As far as close assault, I think chaos is still much better... and the drop pod builds are better with Vulkan marines. I guess we'll see, as I'm sure the next few months will be dominated by the Sons of Russ.
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 03:32
#6
I don't think long fangs are quite enough to build a list around. A unit or two of these are cool but need dedicated transport to be entirely effective, anyway. 35 points of rhino improves the unit's resilience a lot. Even then, I suspect they would need to be used very selectively. I like the idea of a small long fang unit; they are a small point risk and still require dealing with.
What's this idea of 'cheap' grey hunters being so great? Building a list around them? That's nuts. They are reasonably priced (especially versus the old codex) for what they do but rely heavily on support. They are basically a generic marine with counterattack and acute senses; to compensate, they need to use an elite slot to gain the equivalent of a squad leader. All nice, but how does it make them cheap? I see them as the only viable troop choice in the list considering the blood claw changes. They are a jack-of-all-trades unit that holds objectives. If I didn't have to take troops slots or scoring units I would leave them out of the list.
Netter
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:05
#7
It seems that Grey Hunters get bolt pistol, close combat weapon and bolter... which is great if that's the case. With 2 melta or 2 flamers for cheap(second one is free) I think they're great in mech armies, not so great otherwise.
With enough speeders and predators giving you good and fast anti-armour your grey hunters come into thier own... but without that they're in trouble.
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Well considering the current trend *is* a lot of AV 11-12, this would probably be ok. Also, the option to drop 15 templates a turn would be ok against orks (though holy crap that'd be a slow shooting phase). Furthermore, it's only 15 marines. That leaves a LOT of points for other things. What are people backing these puppies (haha) up with?
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